December 7, 2021 • 35 mins
Oregon State Linebacker Hamilcar Rashed Jr. and Cal Defensive Back Camryn Bynum take very different approaches to handling their stress as the 2021 NFL Draft progresses into the middle rounds. But nothing can prepare either of them for the overwhelming feelings they have to face as the final rounds of the draft tick away.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Drafted is a production of tree Fort Media, Clutch Sports Group,
and I Heart Radio. I always wanted to hit someone
else rather than someone smacked me or something like that.
beIN tackled is definitely not fun. Welcome back to Drafted.
(00:21):
I'm Steven Johnson and this is the tenth and final
episode of season three. The two thousand twenty one NFL
Draft has officially begun, and linebacker Hammoca Rashi Jr. Is
watching the first round at home in Chandler, Arizona with
his family. I'm like, raston, I'm like, I feel like
I'm gonna running. I'm running. I got I'm gonna write
(00:43):
like what happen was supposed to be to run and
I'm not. That's what I feel like. It's my first
time since Still, So I haven't been since Still. Hammocka's mom,
Misha McLamore, has been busy preparing for the draft party,
so busy in fact, that this is the first when
she sat down and thought about what this all means.
This is when all those sacrifices the family made come
(01:06):
rushing back, from checking in with Hammoca's tutors and coaches
throughout high school to driving twenty two hours straight to
get him back to Oregon in time for practice, to
keeping his spirits up during all those difficult days in college.
(01:28):
I can't even explabe y'all, which I said, it's like
having a baby. For the ones who have babies, knowing
that feels like referenced to it, referenced to it when
you have that. I feel like that right now because
out about experience. I can't explain it went down, but
it's grace. Watching the thirty two first round picks can
(01:50):
be stressful for any prospect in their family, but it's
especially tough for a guy like Hamaca, who genuinely could
be selected at any point anywhere in the draft. He's
as big a wild card as anyone due to the
up and down nature of his college career. So when
the first round ends without him a getting a call,
he goes upstairs disappointed. Here's one of his younger brothers
(02:13):
talking about the end of the first day of the draft.
The first day, I'm lookay didn't get jackted. He took
off his his little andset or might d and he
went upstairs. So I was like, I wanted to say
something about was like, I don't want to say anything
because it's kind of crazy. His little brother was probably
(02:34):
right to avoid him at that moment. Kimaa explains how
he was feeling first day. You know, I'm just waiting,
just thinking, like waiting to see if my coma is
gonna be called. Now, I watched um a lot of
people and I'm pretty much my agents and stuff like that.
It's just telling me like we need as much as
my ships to go on first day, then you're then
(02:56):
you're coming. So I'm just thinking, uh, that's unless some
more people come off. But you know, they're telling me
it's waiting to other people, um get off the board.
I'm like, why can't they just call me? You know,
it's pretty easier just to call me round than wait
for other people to get picked off the board. I'm
just thinking, like talk to the Ravens all day every day,
(03:17):
the draft day in the corner everyone, and I'm just
like hopefully, like just call me, just call me. At
that point, I'm just pissed and that I end up.
I just took my mic off and I went upstairs
and I was hot. I was just mad. Camico will
have the whole night to stew until rounds two and
three begin in the morning, and that's exactly what happens.
(03:37):
He and his family continue trying to make sense of
why he hasn't been taken yet as they make breakfast
and wait for day two of the draft to begin.
I was hot. I was watching it. They called somebody
else names. I'm over there like, okay, there's got to
be another position. I see the same position, then IM,
(03:58):
that's good, all right, Now I'm gonna do this. I'm like, look,
I'm like, oh hell no, buy and I'm your stressed
out and I already know took that mic off. I
was like, every person were talking to you, like your
(04:18):
first round. Guy? Did you sit here and get a
guy that has nothing nothing close to what I'd be. Yeah.
But at the end of the day, you're gonna go
where you're supposed to go. God play for you, has
a purpose for you. He's not going to deliver your
mail at somebody else's house, so where your mail supposed
to come to, it will make it to your add
just Camica is mom. Misha gives him yet another pep talk,
(04:44):
just like she did when he started at a new
high school his senior year and when he didn't get
to play during those first few seasons at Oregon State,
and even when he got COVID during the past season.
Throughout it all, she always believed he'd get his chance.
The only question is when in the mountains of Big Bear, California,
(05:20):
cornerback cam By them watches the start of the second
round with his friends and family at the rented lakehouse.
Right now will be a great time for somebody Frank
calling me. I can't even lie. Please don't, I actually don't.
I'll be sick. Come on, call my phone, somebody, somebody
called my phone. I will be dying all practice. You
(05:43):
tell me, tell me if you want me. Despite the
obvious mental strain of waiting for a chance at fulfilling
his hopes and dreams, Cam is actually joking around to
keep the mood light, and that's because he's always like this,
he explains, So like football. A lot of people see
(06:06):
it as like super serious and hard and all that,
But I go out in the field having fun. It's
like it's everything I do. Actually, like a movie like
this is like super fun. I shouldn't be playing football
for a living, or I shouldn't be be able to
I should be scared to jump out of a plane
and do three backroops out of a plane and Scott,
I've jumping off cliffs in the waters. That stuff you're
seeing movies and crazy stuff that's like super fun that
(06:29):
a lot of people be scared to do. So that's
that's my whole. Everything I do, I try and make
it fun. I should be scared of doing all that.
But the fact that I'm not, like, yeah, this is
a movie, It's like, this doesn't happen. This isn't regular.
So that's my that's my little catch phrase. Do it
for the movie. He lives as if all the reality
(06:49):
is a movie, one that happens to star Cam, buy them.
I got fine. Corn is off the board. We're good, uh,
happy with it. Obviously, the more corners that go earlier,
the more chances I go early. But overall, I'm not
tripping where I go. So I'm just happy and blessed
(07:11):
to be here. So it's gonna be a movie. Produces.
As they continue watching the draft broadcast, Cam roots for
the highest ranked cornerbacks and safeties to all get drafted.
That would move him up the board and increase his
likelihood of being picked earlier. Okay, come on, a couple
more picks. Come on, that's good. I'm rooting for them
(07:31):
to just leave. Come on, that's all the cloud people
off the board. I got four more give me the Niners.
Just people hitting me saying we're trying to get you today.
We're trying to get you. Packers hit me. Charges hit
(07:53):
me again, Packers hit me, the charges hit me. I'm like,
what the trigger? What I'm trigger? Day two of the
two thousand twenty one NFL Draft officially comes to a
close as both Cam and Hannoto wait for their names
to be called. Only one more day remains, with the
(08:16):
rounds four through seven Jakie place. On the final afternoon,
Cam says goodbye to his friends and family, inviting them
back for the last draft day. Thank you all for
com here. Love y'all, okay, you're nice and several day
three day three day three day three tomorrows for sure
(08:38):
the day ought to anticipation. Four fift six, sevens and
four rounds. I thought it'd be today, honestly, but didn't
happen today, so said again, I thought the charges today
because they hit me last night talking about we need
(09:00):
YEARL but didn't end up happening. It's where I'm supposed
to be. They don't matter. I'm strapping regardless. So day
two is done. Motivation, Cam spirits remained high. This is
(09:22):
a movie, after all, and he's confident this one has
a happy ending. Meanwhile, in Arizona, Hammica isn't feeling quite
as optimistic. He shares his feelings after sliding into the
later rounds of the draft. Second they go by, I
don't get picked, I don't get a call. I'm mad.
I'm just like just super disappointing. Man. I feel like, uh,
(09:45):
you know, I had a lot of people in my house.
I just feel like I was just disappointed embarrassed at
the same time, you know, like like these people, I'm
seeing people get drafted with like no names, and like
it's just it's just irritating, Like how do I go
from our first first team on American and now all
these people are better at me? And that's what really
(10:07):
like maybe mad Clutch Sports agent to Marius Bilbo elaborates
on that inner struggle players like Hammica and Cam faith
when falling in the draft. So the hardest part is
really when that an ounce of disappointment sets in, you know,
(10:31):
just getting a guy over that home, and it has
to be quick. It has to be a quick turn.
I was like, look, bro, we got we got next round,
we got tomorrow, we got the next day. You know,
and this this is a lifeloan, you know, a period
of work that's kind of crumbled into three days on
the weekend, and it doesn't always happen how they wanted
(10:51):
to happen. But look, you do have an opportunity, and
that opportunity is going to really shape how people look
at you down the road. That opportunit unity he talks about,
comes from being picked late in the draft, signing as
a free agent, or proving yourself as a practice player.
The draft doesn't always end the journey for players who
don't make it, how they respond and what they do
(11:12):
next matters almost as much as when or where they
get drafted. Just ask sixth round pick Tom Brady or
all the other late rounders who went on to become
NFL legends like Deacon Jones, Bart Starr, and Raymond Barry.
This is why Demarius wants cam in Hammocka to know
that the only thing that matters right now is the
(11:33):
beginning of day three. Alright, Mike is on Day three
in the draft is about the movie being a movie's guaranteed. Today,
We'll be right back. Cam by them sits in Big Bear, California,
(12:08):
surrounded by friends and family, waiting for someone to give
him the opportunity. His agent to maryus Bilbo talked about
he's still feeling confident even as he watches another corner
get picked over him in round four. Yes, sir, another
one bites the desk. Anything, anything, It all depends on
(12:36):
where I go. Honestly, Cam was willing to play any
position on any team. He just wants to get out there.
Who is it? Oh another DV? Are we chilling? Were good?
I don't know. Was he on any of the boards? Yeah? All, okay,
(13:04):
Hello River ball Player and I like to value and
a Hello Cameron, Yeah, this is me. Hey Cameron, this
is Pat Roberts at the Minnesota Vakings. How you doing.
I'm doing great? How are you doing? I think we're
gonna get ready to your car here. But what we're
gonna do is I'm gonna dial you back from another
(13:26):
and then you're gonna be honest like a zoom. Our
team's getting with our general manager. Okay, Okay, I don't
know if I caught everything you just said. But we'll
get it done. We'll get it down. We're gonna we're
gonna call him like ten seconds. All right, all right,
I got you. We don't know what we're gonna know. Hello,
(13:58):
how you doing, Viking? Ready for a game? That's good,
that's good. Hey what We're going to turn you in
and that I know our coaches talk to you. We're
gonna turn you into the safety. Okay, let's get it.
I'm gonna be the best safe thing me. Let's get it.
We're going to I'll have our coach rolling across the congratulation.
(14:24):
Thank you, guys, appreciate it. But okay, thank you. Oh
my gosh, h love me, guys. This man for this man,
(14:57):
Oh my gosh, I work for this man pretty too much.
Once it is, the Minnesota Vikings have officially picked Cameron
Binum with the one of the two thousand twenty one
NFL Draft. Here are his parents, Curtis and Jennifer on
House are real that moment felt when he got the car.
(15:26):
Even though I knew it was coming, I still thought
it was a joke. I thought I thought he was
messing around with everyone. And then I'm like Okay, maybe
he's not. But originally when I saw him looking at
his phone, like now he's joking, I'm not following for that. Yeah,
I'm glad you put it on speaker, Funes so we
can all hear him. Take this is coach, and Cam
was just so excited. The only thing left now is
(15:50):
for the selection to be officially announced on the draft broadcast.
It was on the King was dead. Let's do he
(16:17):
sacrifice on that work. I love you y'all put in
hours for it is. It's now about to go to
be great. We're going wrong for me to work out
My gosh, did it too times. Cam's hugging his parents
(16:44):
talking about the extra odd jobs they picked up to
help pay for his football camps and trainers, all those
five in the morning workouts, they drove them to the
recruiting operation, they helped him manage, all the sacrifices they
made over the years to get them to this point.
Here are all three of them again describing those overwhelming emotions.
(17:11):
That's whatever I really felt real once they said it
on TV. And when when I yeah, when they said that,
I was crazy hyped and I was pretty emotional to
I was crying it's probably me and I'm honestly, I
didn't think I cried, but I did. But yeah, it
was both of the best. We were competing for who's
gonna cry the most? Just seeing everybody they're just celebrating
(17:35):
his accomplishments and everything. Yeah, I was a crying baby,
So I was. It was really emotional, really emotional. Back
in the cabin, Cam's phone rings once again. Hello, thank
you guys. Get what do you mean? That's his longtime
(18:02):
coach and trainer Anthony Brown on the phone. Coach Brown
elaborates on what it meant for him to see the
high school kid who couldn't even get on the field
for the JV team developed into the professional who just
got picked by the Minnesota Vikings. Saturday morning. Uh, I
called him, tell him I'm coming up, and I look
(18:24):
at my calendar. I'm like, oh crap, I got a kid.
I gotta train this morning at nine o'clock. So Calm
is that big beer. So I'm training this kid. I'm like,
he's he's thirteen years So I finished. I finished up
the training with him. As I'm finishing up my training
with him, I get a phone call from Calm. You
know that he's been drafted, but it was other people
(18:46):
that called. But when I got on the phone with him,
it was one of those things who I just broke down.
He didn't hear me crying on my side of the phone, bro,
but it was just it was just it was so unreal.
And I swear to you, for about twenty minutes, I'm
sitting on the couch just crying my butt off. Man,
(19:06):
I couldn't. I couldn't stop crying. You know, it was
so emotional because you watched this kid that only people
better than him was him, his family and me, you know,
and you see being drafted to the NFL and you like,
you know, you you things are gonna happen. But him
(19:27):
being drafted, putting the countless hours, uh, you know, overcoming
all the eyes of to where he's being drafted in
the fourth round to the National Football League and ended
up at the Minnesota Vikings is man is you know,
this is special and it's and it's something that you
you know, you can't take you can't take you away
(19:48):
from him and his family because the kid did it.
He did it the right way. It's a blessing. The
this kid was able to in a long way to
the support that he picked up on the way. It is.
It's really it's remarkable that this really happens to Cam Biden,
(20:11):
and I just and I just praise God that it
happened to him, because he deserved everything that's gonna happen.
Happy to damn, but it's family. He really deserves it.
After Cam finishes doing interviews and media appearances, he records
one final message before heading down to the lake where
(20:33):
the celebration will really get going. All right, so this
is my last little voice message for a little bit.
I'm about to go jump in this lake. Uh, finally
doing my interviews, had like five of them already, they're
on my calls, So now I can finally go celebrate
with the family. Everybody's outside waiting for me. So I'm
about to go jump in the lake and everybody's doing
it with me. So yep, thank you all. God is good.
(20:55):
God is great. I'm a viking with that. Cam goes
outside and gets ready to jump. So after I got drafted,
I was like, Okay, we're off the lake. We're in
We're in Big Bear in the cabin right off the lakes.
That we gotta do something that we're gonna remember forever.
It's something that's gonna be super cool to capture on tape.
We can't just sit there and just jump and be happy.
(21:17):
And now just till around looking at each other this
You're like, all right, I get draft. We're jump in
the lake. All of us are jump in the lake.
So they're like, uh, sure, I guess it's your day.
So we're doing it. So all my family were planned it.
After I got drafted. Had to go up there upstairs,
good a couple of interviews real quick from Minnesota. As
soon as I came down, had to speak to you
(21:38):
with my song playing, And we y'all ran down some
water and jumped off the dock and like all my teammates,
we all did backwards in the water. We'll be right
(21:59):
back come The third day of the two thousand twenty
one NFL Draft is still underway in Chandler, Arizona. Hammaka
Rashi Jr. Watches Round four come to an end. There
are only three rounds remaining, and he still hasn't gotten
(22:20):
his phone call. But it's my Misha refuses to let
him or anyone in the house feel down. God's not
gonna giveson you. Somebody else at the door or blessing.
He got your own blessing when it's your turn. Don't
matter what else somebody else got or whoever Scott drafted.
(22:40):
Your Your blessing is your blessing. Like our race said,
we have the one for cent town, only one experience
what we are today. So the fact that we're here
and all the people that was on your team and
the God has opened that door one. You've been at
to too much hype brasity. You can't never reacholla of
what somebody else happcause you don't know what they have
(23:01):
to go through, just like whoever hate like you don't
know your story. Yeah, they don't know your story. They
don't know the adversity that all they're gonna see is
where you are. They don't know what you went through.
The we're here, Curry, we're here. That's right, we're here.
Gloria has around five ends and six begins. Even Misha
(23:26):
begins to struggle with her emotions. Here she is again
describing her mental state as the final two rounds continue
flying by. It was to me like a death. It
was like a death. Brabies and now the baby at
the same time, like what in the world just happened.
I would not even buyed all these people over our head.
(23:46):
All these people come thinking this is the bottom line,
and to pull him out the tree. The first day like, okay,
come back then, we're gonna get through this. So the
first day it was red forms and I'm like, hey,
you gotta come back down here. This is just the
first day. So he came back down. The second day, Okay,
we get through. The second day. The third day he
(24:06):
was just you know, we all were here for support
for him, don't get through this. And then he was
still okay. I wasn't one of the Philip part like
I did, but he was still okay. I was a
wreck by then. I was just like it was a
very emotional. Hammaica's father in law, Chris, also ways in
on the emotional burden. My husband want to say something.
(24:27):
I was broke trying to people for three days and
trying to make sure everybody pass up to the drink.
My ap bill double. Basically it was very expensive. Meanwhile,
(24:48):
Hammaka tries to process his free fall into what is
now the seventh and final round of draft. I think
I his flight just I'm just like, wow, that's why
I'm just hoping for a call no matter what. But
I'm just trying to figure out what's going on why
I'm not getting drafted, And honestly, that's probably like the
(25:11):
biggest disappoint h I want to say I got. I
feel like I just got egged on, Like people are
just misleading me, thinking acting like they're gonna draft me,
and I'm seeing what kickers and puntershs get drafted before me.
I'm like, what is going on? And that's probably what
makes me mad at the most, Like you don't act
(25:32):
like you're undrafting, you don't draft me, end up drafting.
I'm just saying a different guy in my position, and
that's like wow, okay, and end up getting the call.
Somebody called me and they were just like, yeah, I
heard that they're getting a ride receiver, but we love
to get you in free agency. He was like. I
(25:52):
was just like wow. I was like that's tough. Like
I'm thinking this is the call, but they're telling me like, yeah,
we can get you for you just if you want
to come here. Okay. The calls, Hamnaker receives our teams
saying they'd like to sign him as a free agent.
After the draft ends, no one ever calls to say
(26:12):
they are drafting him. It's a heartbreaking weekend for a
player who had first round aspirations only a year earlier.
Honestly for a lot of teams like me. But there's
nobody will pulling the trigger. And that's what I like,
I really to understand still, but overall, I would say
the disappointment. Rookies always say the biggest change from college
(26:35):
to the NFL is the speed of the game, and
that's true with the business of football as well. Before
the draft even comes to an end, multiple teams text
and call Hamaker, expressing their interests and signing him. After
it's over, and as soon as the final picks announced,
they start making offers. As soon as the last pig
(26:55):
goes in. Now people are calling or they're calling before that.
I think the Raiders called me for the or the
SEC after the Jets. Um, I want to say, the
Patriots or somebody. A lot of other people to text
me and calling, and it's pretty much like, yeah, I
believe you make team and you'd be a great fear
here and you're pretty much just like okay, you either
say yeah, I don't know. The race to sign undrafted
(27:17):
players often becomes competitive and can even turn into bidding wars,
where sometimes the contracts end up higher than those signed
by guys drafted in the sixth or seventh rounds. Here's
Hammokah again on how quickly at all unfolded for him.
I want to say the Jets de coordinated. Text me,
He's like, I think you have a great upside of
here and you could play and ended up what's going
(27:40):
to the Jets and at this poem and Jet and
you know, so that day, you know somebody saw something
in me, and you know I'm gonna work my butt
off to make this team and become a starter anything
around there. Here's agent to Marius Bilbo again describing how
he sees this wild West free agency process. Well, it's
(28:00):
actually frustrating because you know, teams us that as escape
why not get it? They only have so many picks,
they have so many positions to feel And I know
inside those rooms you have a plethora of people fighting
for different things. You have defensive coaches fight for defensive player,
offensive coaches saying we have to dress this need and
you'll start getting those calls. Um, hey, some things will
(28:20):
do it before the draft even starts before round one,
they'll say, hey, if your guys to go undrafted, you know,
it's kind of like uh dating, but uh. You start
to get frustrated with the teams that said, oh, we
wanted to take him in the forth, why didn't you
take him there? You know, I don't I don't want
to hear that after the draft is over, like, who gars?
You know, we had a high grade on them. Wasn't
high enough, you know, because he's hitting here, you know.
(28:43):
So it's that frustration that kind of sets in. I
got about fifteen teams that called and was like, I
don't know what happened. And again in my mom I'm pissed.
I'm pissed for the kid. But then you start to
look at roster. You start to break things down and say,
if in fact he's not drafted, where's the best fit?
You know, where does he fit in the scheme wise
(29:05):
he gets to go into a place that's unbiased on
draft and then's just looking at potential and talent. And
that's when you have to push the emotion to the
side and say, what are we gonna do best for
him in terms of scheme fit, in terms of teams,
you know, things like that. Hammaka signs with the Jets
(29:31):
almost immediately after the draft because he fits their scheme
on defense, and it's a team where he has a
good chance to make the roster and to get playing time.
So now once again he stares down a daunting path
in his journey, and once again he's ready to prove
to everyone what he can do. A lot of people
(29:52):
are texting me happy for me going to the league
and get assigned to the Jets. Now I just took
that as like, Yeah, rather you stopped telling me congratulations
when I haven't made it, you know, so like you
rather rather you tell me I work. Aren't in congratulating
because I'm not not where I am while where I'm
supposed to be, I'm not where I want to be.
(30:14):
Coach George Hawthorne, who worked with Hammaco at Chandler High
School and later became one of his mentors, has seen
this all before. He's watched Hammoca face adversity from the
day he met him all the way to the end
of this year's draft, because he had already been down
those those bumpy roads and those roads with the detours
(30:35):
in the roadblocks, and the things. He was able to
handle that much better than some of the people that
hadn't been down those roads. A lot of people have
only encountered success on their journeys, so when they come
to the first obstacle, they don't know how to handle it. Well.
A good thing about him, he's been up against these
types of obstacles before. He's had to face adversity throughout
(31:00):
his life. Transferring schools and you know, having to overcome
the obstacle of not having the grades and having a
really really buckle down in school and getting his grades together.
So even go to Oregon State, he had a game
waiting in order to be a college football player. So
he's you know, where he is, where he's sitting is
not an unfamiliar, unfamiliar situation. He's been there, He's been
(31:21):
a many times. He knows how to overcome it. You know.
It's going to work through it, you know, and I'm
really looking forward to the journey of him working through
it and proving to you know, everybody in New York
and everybody in the NFL and everybody in the country
that he can be one of the best in the game.
Another mentor, coach Russell Scott has also been by Hammock
(31:42):
aside throughout this journey, and he knows hammaca is as
prepared as anyone for what comes next. Yeah, He's had
to endure, you know. Um Joseph was thrown into a
fiery pit by his brothers, you know, and and came
out as a king. So I believe ham is going
to do the same thing. He's had to endure a
(32:04):
lot that he had the direct rug pulled out from
underneath him, and he's had to face adversity a few
times in his life and it's prepared him for this
position that he's in right now. I believe even with
the divorce of his parents, that takes a total on kids.
You know, sometimes they blame themselves for their parents being divorced,
(32:28):
and so, you know, I think what we're going to
watch is a success story because of what he's had
to endure all of his life. And I try to
encourage him not to look at these things as a setback,
but a set up for what's next in his life.
And I think he's going to be ready, uh, you know,
to to take this next step. Hammocker recognizes the familiar
(32:57):
position he's in. He stood at life ros rugs many
times before. He knows there are nearly five undrafted players
currently in the NFL and that he has the opportunity
to add to that number. He's ready to fight his
way onto a roster and eventually to the top once again.
I feel like um freshmans off my year, going to
(33:19):
like No orgiest state state, work my butt off again.
The show you know people just like in high school.
So it's the saying Susant Road. Different journey. As the
NFL season progressed, Hammica has made the Jets practice squad.
(33:42):
Dez Fitzpatrick is also playing the practice squad for the
Tennessee Titans in Minnesota. Cam Bin them is beginning to
get playing time at safety, while Kellen Mond works as
their third string quarterback. Alex Leatherwood and DeVante Smith are
starting for the Raiders and the Eagles. These six players
(34:07):
beat impossible odds and now have the chance to pursue
their dreams at the highest level. They're facing an entirely
new challenge against the best athletes in the world. Welcome
to the NFL. Drafted is a production of tree Ford Media,
(34:37):
Clutch Sports Group, and I Heart Radio. The executive producers
are Kelly Garner, Lisa Ammerman, Eric Slott, Eric Weiner, and
Sean Tatone. The series is produced and written by Eric Winer.
Garme Mamalu is our coordinating producer. Coral Silverberg is our
associate producer. Tom Monahan is our senior audio engineer. The
(34:58):
show is mixed, edited and how stood by me Stephen Johnson.
Additional production helped from Tim Shower and Hailey Mandelburg. For
transcripts of the show and more information undrafted, go to
tree for dot fm, and for more podcasts from My Heart,
visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
you listen to your favorite shows.
Drafted is a production of tree Fort Media, Clutch Sports Group,
and I Heart Radio. I always wanted to hit someone
else rather than someone smacked me or something like that.
beIN tackled is definitely not fun. Welcome back to Drafted.
(00:21):
I'm Steven Johnson and this is the tenth and final
episode of season three. The two thousand twenty one NFL
Draft has officially begun, and linebacker Hammoca Rashi Jr. Is
watching the first round at home in Chandler, Arizona with
his family. I'm like, raston, I'm like, I feel like
I'm gonna running. I'm running. I got I'm gonna write
(00:43):
like what happen was supposed to be to run and
I'm not. That's what I feel like. It's my first
time since Still, So I haven't been since Still. Hammocka's mom,
Misha McLamore, has been busy preparing for the draft party,
so busy in fact, that this is the first when
she sat down and thought about what this all means.
This is when all those sacrifices the family made come
(01:06):
rushing back, from checking in with Hammoca's tutors and coaches
throughout high school to driving twenty two hours straight to
get him back to Oregon in time for practice, to
keeping his spirits up during all those difficult days in college.
(01:28):
I can't even explabe y'all, which I said, it's like
having a baby. For the ones who have babies, knowing
that feels like referenced to it, referenced to it when
you have that. I feel like that right now because
out about experience. I can't explain it went down, but
it's grace. Watching the thirty two first round picks can
(01:50):
be stressful for any prospect in their family, but it's
especially tough for a guy like Hamaca, who genuinely could
be selected at any point anywhere in the draft. He's
as big a wild card as anyone due to the
up and down nature of his college career. So when
the first round ends without him a getting a call,
he goes upstairs disappointed. Here's one of his younger brothers
(02:13):
talking about the end of the first day of the draft.
The first day, I'm lookay didn't get jackted. He took
off his his little andset or might d and he
went upstairs. So I was like, I wanted to say
something about was like, I don't want to say anything
because it's kind of crazy. His little brother was probably
(02:34):
right to avoid him at that moment. Kimaa explains how
he was feeling first day. You know, I'm just waiting,
just thinking, like waiting to see if my coma is
gonna be called. Now, I watched um a lot of
people and I'm pretty much my agents and stuff like that.
It's just telling me like we need as much as
my ships to go on first day, then you're then
(02:56):
you're coming. So I'm just thinking, uh, that's unless some
more people come off. But you know, they're telling me
it's waiting to other people, um get off the board.
I'm like, why can't they just call me? You know,
it's pretty easier just to call me round than wait
for other people to get picked off the board. I'm
just thinking, like talk to the Ravens all day every day,
(03:17):
the draft day in the corner everyone, and I'm just
like hopefully, like just call me, just call me. At
that point, I'm just pissed and that I end up.
I just took my mic off and I went upstairs
and I was hot. I was just mad. Camico will
have the whole night to stew until rounds two and
three begin in the morning, and that's exactly what happens.
(03:37):
He and his family continue trying to make sense of
why he hasn't been taken yet as they make breakfast
and wait for day two of the draft to begin.
I was hot. I was watching it. They called somebody
else names. I'm over there like, okay, there's got to
be another position. I see the same position, then IM,
(03:58):
that's good, all right, Now I'm gonna do this. I'm like, look,
I'm like, oh hell no, buy and I'm your stressed
out and I already know took that mic off. I
was like, every person were talking to you, like your
(04:18):
first round. Guy? Did you sit here and get a
guy that has nothing nothing close to what I'd be. Yeah.
But at the end of the day, you're gonna go
where you're supposed to go. God play for you, has
a purpose for you. He's not going to deliver your
mail at somebody else's house, so where your mail supposed
to come to, it will make it to your add
just Camica is mom. Misha gives him yet another pep talk,
(04:44):
just like she did when he started at a new
high school his senior year and when he didn't get
to play during those first few seasons at Oregon State,
and even when he got COVID during the past season.
Throughout it all, she always believed he'd get his chance.
The only question is when in the mountains of Big Bear, California,
(05:20):
cornerback cam By them watches the start of the second
round with his friends and family at the rented lakehouse.
Right now will be a great time for somebody Frank
calling me. I can't even lie. Please don't, I actually don't.
I'll be sick. Come on, call my phone, somebody, somebody
called my phone. I will be dying all practice. You
(05:43):
tell me, tell me if you want me. Despite the
obvious mental strain of waiting for a chance at fulfilling
his hopes and dreams, Cam is actually joking around to
keep the mood light, and that's because he's always like this,
he explains, So like football. A lot of people see
(06:06):
it as like super serious and hard and all that,
But I go out in the field having fun. It's
like it's everything I do. Actually, like a movie like
this is like super fun. I shouldn't be playing football
for a living, or I shouldn't be be able to
I should be scared to jump out of a plane
and do three backroops out of a plane and Scott,
I've jumping off cliffs in the waters. That stuff you're
seeing movies and crazy stuff that's like super fun that
(06:29):
a lot of people be scared to do. So that's
that's my whole. Everything I do, I try and make
it fun. I should be scared of doing all that.
But the fact that I'm not, like, yeah, this is
a movie, It's like, this doesn't happen. This isn't regular.
So that's my that's my little catch phrase. Do it
for the movie. He lives as if all the reality
(06:49):
is a movie, one that happens to star Cam, buy them.
I got fine. Corn is off the board. We're good, uh,
happy with it. Obviously, the more corners that go earlier,
the more chances I go early. But overall, I'm not
tripping where I go. So I'm just happy and blessed
(07:11):
to be here. So it's gonna be a movie. Produces.
As they continue watching the draft broadcast, Cam roots for
the highest ranked cornerbacks and safeties to all get drafted.
That would move him up the board and increase his
likelihood of being picked earlier. Okay, come on, a couple
more picks. Come on, that's good. I'm rooting for them
(07:31):
to just leave. Come on, that's all the cloud people
off the board. I got four more give me the Niners.
Just people hitting me saying we're trying to get you today.
We're trying to get you. Packers hit me. Charges hit
(07:53):
me again, Packers hit me, the charges hit me. I'm like,
what the trigger? What I'm trigger? Day two of the
two thousand twenty one NFL Draft officially comes to a
close as both Cam and Hannoto wait for their names
to be called. Only one more day remains, with the
(08:16):
rounds four through seven Jakie place. On the final afternoon,
Cam says goodbye to his friends and family, inviting them
back for the last draft day. Thank you all for
com here. Love y'all, okay, you're nice and several day
three day three day three day three tomorrows for sure
(08:38):
the day ought to anticipation. Four fift six, sevens and
four rounds. I thought it'd be today, honestly, but didn't
happen today, so said again, I thought the charges today
because they hit me last night talking about we need
(09:00):
YEARL but didn't end up happening. It's where I'm supposed
to be. They don't matter. I'm strapping regardless. So day
two is done. Motivation, Cam spirits remained high. This is
(09:22):
a movie, after all, and he's confident this one has
a happy ending. Meanwhile, in Arizona, Hammica isn't feeling quite
as optimistic. He shares his feelings after sliding into the
later rounds of the draft. Second they go by, I
don't get picked, I don't get a call. I'm mad.
I'm just like just super disappointing. Man. I feel like, uh,
(09:45):
you know, I had a lot of people in my house.
I just feel like I was just disappointed embarrassed at
the same time, you know, like like these people, I'm
seeing people get drafted with like no names, and like
it's just it's just irritating, Like how do I go
from our first first team on American and now all
these people are better at me? And that's what really
(10:07):
like maybe mad Clutch Sports agent to Marius Bilbo elaborates
on that inner struggle players like Hammica and Cam faith
when falling in the draft. So the hardest part is
really when that an ounce of disappointment sets in, you know,
(10:31):
just getting a guy over that home, and it has
to be quick. It has to be a quick turn.
I was like, look, bro, we got we got next round,
we got tomorrow, we got the next day. You know,
and this this is a lifeloan, you know, a period
of work that's kind of crumbled into three days on
the weekend, and it doesn't always happen how they wanted
(10:51):
to happen. But look, you do have an opportunity, and
that opportunity is going to really shape how people look
at you down the road. That opportunit unity he talks about,
comes from being picked late in the draft, signing as
a free agent, or proving yourself as a practice player.
The draft doesn't always end the journey for players who
don't make it, how they respond and what they do
(11:12):
next matters almost as much as when or where they
get drafted. Just ask sixth round pick Tom Brady or
all the other late rounders who went on to become
NFL legends like Deacon Jones, Bart Starr, and Raymond Barry.
This is why Demarius wants cam in Hammocka to know
that the only thing that matters right now is the
(11:33):
beginning of day three. Alright, Mike is on Day three
in the draft is about the movie being a movie's guaranteed. Today,
We'll be right back. Cam by them sits in Big Bear, California,
(12:08):
surrounded by friends and family, waiting for someone to give
him the opportunity. His agent to maryus Bilbo talked about
he's still feeling confident even as he watches another corner
get picked over him in round four. Yes, sir, another
one bites the desk. Anything, anything, It all depends on
(12:36):
where I go. Honestly, Cam was willing to play any
position on any team. He just wants to get out there.
Who is it? Oh another DV? Are we chilling? Were good?
I don't know. Was he on any of the boards? Yeah? All, okay,
(13:04):
Hello River ball Player and I like to value and
a Hello Cameron, Yeah, this is me. Hey Cameron, this
is Pat Roberts at the Minnesota Vakings. How you doing.
I'm doing great? How are you doing? I think we're
gonna get ready to your car here. But what we're
gonna do is I'm gonna dial you back from another
(13:26):
and then you're gonna be honest like a zoom. Our
team's getting with our general manager. Okay, Okay, I don't
know if I caught everything you just said. But we'll
get it done. We'll get it down. We're gonna we're
gonna call him like ten seconds. All right, all right,
I got you. We don't know what we're gonna know. Hello,
(13:58):
how you doing, Viking? Ready for a game? That's good,
that's good. Hey what We're going to turn you in
and that I know our coaches talk to you. We're
gonna turn you into the safety. Okay, let's get it.
I'm gonna be the best safe thing me. Let's get it.
We're going to I'll have our coach rolling across the congratulation.
(14:24):
Thank you, guys, appreciate it. But okay, thank you. Oh
my gosh, h love me, guys. This man for this man,
(14:57):
Oh my gosh, I work for this man pretty too much.
Once it is, the Minnesota Vikings have officially picked Cameron
Binum with the one of the two thousand twenty one
NFL Draft. Here are his parents, Curtis and Jennifer on
House are real that moment felt when he got the car.
(15:26):
Even though I knew it was coming, I still thought
it was a joke. I thought I thought he was
messing around with everyone. And then I'm like Okay, maybe
he's not. But originally when I saw him looking at
his phone, like now he's joking, I'm not following for that. Yeah,
I'm glad you put it on speaker, Funes so we
can all hear him. Take this is coach, and Cam
was just so excited. The only thing left now is
(15:50):
for the selection to be officially announced on the draft broadcast.
It was on the King was dead. Let's do he
(16:17):
sacrifice on that work. I love you y'all put in
hours for it is. It's now about to go to
be great. We're going wrong for me to work out
My gosh, did it too times. Cam's hugging his parents
(16:44):
talking about the extra odd jobs they picked up to
help pay for his football camps and trainers, all those
five in the morning workouts, they drove them to the
recruiting operation, they helped him manage, all the sacrifices they
made over the years to get them to this point.
Here are all three of them again describing those overwhelming emotions.
(17:11):
That's whatever I really felt real once they said it
on TV. And when when I yeah, when they said that,
I was crazy hyped and I was pretty emotional to
I was crying it's probably me and I'm honestly, I
didn't think I cried, but I did. But yeah, it
was both of the best. We were competing for who's
gonna cry the most? Just seeing everybody they're just celebrating
(17:35):
his accomplishments and everything. Yeah, I was a crying baby,
So I was. It was really emotional, really emotional. Back
in the cabin, Cam's phone rings once again. Hello, thank
you guys. Get what do you mean? That's his longtime
(18:02):
coach and trainer Anthony Brown on the phone. Coach Brown
elaborates on what it meant for him to see the
high school kid who couldn't even get on the field
for the JV team developed into the professional who just
got picked by the Minnesota Vikings. Saturday morning. Uh, I
called him, tell him I'm coming up, and I look
(18:24):
at my calendar. I'm like, oh crap, I got a kid.
I gotta train this morning at nine o'clock. So Calm
is that big beer. So I'm training this kid. I'm like,
he's he's thirteen years So I finished. I finished up
the training with him. As I'm finishing up my training
with him, I get a phone call from Calm. You
know that he's been drafted, but it was other people
(18:46):
that called. But when I got on the phone with him,
it was one of those things who I just broke down.
He didn't hear me crying on my side of the phone, bro,
but it was just it was just it was so unreal.
And I swear to you, for about twenty minutes, I'm
sitting on the couch just crying my butt off. Man,
(19:06):
I couldn't. I couldn't stop crying. You know, it was
so emotional because you watched this kid that only people
better than him was him, his family and me, you know,
and you see being drafted to the NFL and you like,
you know, you you things are gonna happen. But him
(19:27):
being drafted, putting the countless hours, uh, you know, overcoming
all the eyes of to where he's being drafted in
the fourth round to the National Football League and ended
up at the Minnesota Vikings is man is you know,
this is special and it's and it's something that you
you know, you can't take you can't take you away
(19:48):
from him and his family because the kid did it.
He did it the right way. It's a blessing. The
this kid was able to in a long way to
the support that he picked up on the way. It is.
It's really it's remarkable that this really happens to Cam Biden,
(20:11):
and I just and I just praise God that it
happened to him, because he deserved everything that's gonna happen.
Happy to damn, but it's family. He really deserves it.
After Cam finishes doing interviews and media appearances, he records
one final message before heading down to the lake where
(20:33):
the celebration will really get going. All right, so this
is my last little voice message for a little bit.
I'm about to go jump in this lake. Uh, finally
doing my interviews, had like five of them already, they're
on my calls, So now I can finally go celebrate
with the family. Everybody's outside waiting for me. So I'm
about to go jump in the lake and everybody's doing
it with me. So yep, thank you all. God is good.
(20:55):
God is great. I'm a viking with that. Cam goes
outside and gets ready to jump. So after I got drafted,
I was like, Okay, we're off the lake. We're in
We're in Big Bear in the cabin right off the lakes.
That we gotta do something that we're gonna remember forever.
It's something that's gonna be super cool to capture on tape.
We can't just sit there and just jump and be happy.
(21:17):
And now just till around looking at each other this
You're like, all right, I get draft. We're jump in
the lake. All of us are jump in the lake.
So they're like, uh, sure, I guess it's your day.
So we're doing it. So all my family were planned it.
After I got drafted. Had to go up there upstairs,
good a couple of interviews real quick from Minnesota. As
soon as I came down, had to speak to you
(21:38):
with my song playing, And we y'all ran down some
water and jumped off the dock and like all my teammates,
we all did backwards in the water. We'll be right
(21:59):
back come The third day of the two thousand twenty
one NFL Draft is still underway in Chandler, Arizona. Hammaka
Rashi Jr. Watches Round four come to an end. There
are only three rounds remaining, and he still hasn't gotten
(22:20):
his phone call. But it's my Misha refuses to let
him or anyone in the house feel down. God's not
gonna giveson you. Somebody else at the door or blessing.
He got your own blessing when it's your turn. Don't
matter what else somebody else got or whoever Scott drafted.
(22:40):
Your Your blessing is your blessing. Like our race said,
we have the one for cent town, only one experience
what we are today. So the fact that we're here
and all the people that was on your team and
the God has opened that door one. You've been at
to too much hype brasity. You can't never reacholla of
what somebody else happcause you don't know what they have
(23:01):
to go through, just like whoever hate like you don't
know your story. Yeah, they don't know your story. They
don't know the adversity that all they're gonna see is
where you are. They don't know what you went through.
The we're here, Curry, we're here. That's right, we're here.
Gloria has around five ends and six begins. Even Misha
(23:26):
begins to struggle with her emotions. Here she is again
describing her mental state as the final two rounds continue
flying by. It was to me like a death. It
was like a death. Brabies and now the baby at
the same time, like what in the world just happened.
I would not even buyed all these people over our head.
(23:46):
All these people come thinking this is the bottom line,
and to pull him out the tree. The first day like, okay,
come back then, we're gonna get through this. So the
first day it was red forms and I'm like, hey,
you gotta come back down here. This is just the
first day. So he came back down. The second day, Okay,
we get through. The second day. The third day he
(24:06):
was just you know, we all were here for support
for him, don't get through this. And then he was
still okay. I wasn't one of the Philip part like
I did, but he was still okay. I was a
wreck by then. I was just like it was a
very emotional. Hammaica's father in law, Chris, also ways in
on the emotional burden. My husband want to say something.
(24:27):
I was broke trying to people for three days and
trying to make sure everybody pass up to the drink.
My ap bill double. Basically it was very expensive. Meanwhile,
(24:48):
Hammaka tries to process his free fall into what is
now the seventh and final round of draft. I think
I his flight just I'm just like, wow, that's why
I'm just hoping for a call no matter what. But
I'm just trying to figure out what's going on why
I'm not getting drafted, And honestly, that's probably like the
(25:11):
biggest disappoint h I want to say I got. I
feel like I just got egged on, Like people are
just misleading me, thinking acting like they're gonna draft me,
and I'm seeing what kickers and puntershs get drafted before me.
I'm like, what is going on? And that's probably what
makes me mad at the most, Like you don't act
(25:32):
like you're undrafting, you don't draft me, end up drafting.
I'm just saying a different guy in my position, and
that's like wow, okay, and end up getting the call.
Somebody called me and they were just like, yeah, I
heard that they're getting a ride receiver, but we love
to get you in free agency. He was like. I
(25:52):
was just like wow. I was like that's tough. Like
I'm thinking this is the call, but they're telling me like, yeah,
we can get you for you just if you want
to come here. Okay. The calls, Hamnaker receives our teams
saying they'd like to sign him as a free agent.
After the draft ends, no one ever calls to say
(26:12):
they are drafting him. It's a heartbreaking weekend for a
player who had first round aspirations only a year earlier.
Honestly for a lot of teams like me. But there's
nobody will pulling the trigger. And that's what I like,
I really to understand still, but overall, I would say
the disappointment. Rookies always say the biggest change from college
(26:35):
to the NFL is the speed of the game, and
that's true with the business of football as well. Before
the draft even comes to an end, multiple teams text
and call Hamaker, expressing their interests and signing him. After
it's over, and as soon as the final picks announced,
they start making offers. As soon as the last pig
(26:55):
goes in. Now people are calling or they're calling before that.
I think the Raiders called me for the or the
SEC after the Jets. Um, I want to say, the
Patriots or somebody. A lot of other people to text
me and calling, and it's pretty much like, yeah, I
believe you make team and you'd be a great fear
here and you're pretty much just like okay, you either
say yeah, I don't know. The race to sign undrafted
(27:17):
players often becomes competitive and can even turn into bidding wars,
where sometimes the contracts end up higher than those signed
by guys drafted in the sixth or seventh rounds. Here's
Hammokah again on how quickly at all unfolded for him.
I want to say the Jets de coordinated. Text me,
He's like, I think you have a great upside of
here and you could play and ended up what's going
(27:40):
to the Jets and at this poem and Jet and
you know, so that day, you know somebody saw something
in me, and you know I'm gonna work my butt
off to make this team and become a starter anything
around there. Here's agent to Marius Bilbo again describing how
he sees this wild West free agency process. Well, it's
(28:00):
actually frustrating because you know, teams us that as escape
why not get it? They only have so many picks,
they have so many positions to feel And I know
inside those rooms you have a plethora of people fighting
for different things. You have defensive coaches fight for defensive player,
offensive coaches saying we have to dress this need and
you'll start getting those calls. Um, hey, some things will
(28:20):
do it before the draft even starts before round one,
they'll say, hey, if your guys to go undrafted, you know,
it's kind of like uh dating, but uh. You start
to get frustrated with the teams that said, oh, we
wanted to take him in the forth, why didn't you
take him there? You know, I don't I don't want
to hear that after the draft is over, like, who gars?
You know, we had a high grade on them. Wasn't
high enough, you know, because he's hitting here, you know.
(28:43):
So it's that frustration that kind of sets in. I
got about fifteen teams that called and was like, I
don't know what happened. And again in my mom I'm pissed.
I'm pissed for the kid. But then you start to
look at roster. You start to break things down and say,
if in fact he's not drafted, where's the best fit?
You know, where does he fit in the scheme wise
(29:05):
he gets to go into a place that's unbiased on
draft and then's just looking at potential and talent. And
that's when you have to push the emotion to the
side and say, what are we gonna do best for
him in terms of scheme fit, in terms of teams,
you know, things like that. Hammaka signs with the Jets
(29:31):
almost immediately after the draft because he fits their scheme
on defense, and it's a team where he has a
good chance to make the roster and to get playing time.
So now once again he stares down a daunting path
in his journey, and once again he's ready to prove
to everyone what he can do. A lot of people
(29:52):
are texting me happy for me going to the league
and get assigned to the Jets. Now I just took
that as like, Yeah, rather you stopped telling me congratulations
when I haven't made it, you know, so like you
rather rather you tell me I work. Aren't in congratulating
because I'm not not where I am while where I'm
supposed to be, I'm not where I want to be.
(30:14):
Coach George Hawthorne, who worked with Hammaco at Chandler High
School and later became one of his mentors, has seen
this all before. He's watched Hammoca face adversity from the
day he met him all the way to the end
of this year's draft, because he had already been down
those those bumpy roads and those roads with the detours
(30:35):
in the roadblocks, and the things. He was able to
handle that much better than some of the people that
hadn't been down those roads. A lot of people have
only encountered success on their journeys, so when they come
to the first obstacle, they don't know how to handle it. Well.
A good thing about him, he's been up against these
types of obstacles before. He's had to face adversity throughout
(31:00):
his life. Transferring schools and you know, having to overcome
the obstacle of not having the grades and having a
really really buckle down in school and getting his grades together.
So even go to Oregon State, he had a game
waiting in order to be a college football player. So
he's you know, where he is, where he's sitting is
not an unfamiliar, unfamiliar situation. He's been there, He's been
(31:21):
a many times. He knows how to overcome it. You know.
It's going to work through it, you know, and I'm
really looking forward to the journey of him working through
it and proving to you know, everybody in New York
and everybody in the NFL and everybody in the country
that he can be one of the best in the game.
Another mentor, coach Russell Scott has also been by Hammock
(31:42):
aside throughout this journey, and he knows hammaca is as
prepared as anyone for what comes next. Yeah, He's had
to endure, you know. Um Joseph was thrown into a
fiery pit by his brothers, you know, and and came
out as a king. So I believe ham is going
to do the same thing. He's had to endure a
(32:04):
lot that he had the direct rug pulled out from
underneath him, and he's had to face adversity a few
times in his life and it's prepared him for this
position that he's in right now. I believe even with
the divorce of his parents, that takes a total on kids.
You know, sometimes they blame themselves for their parents being divorced,
(32:28):
and so, you know, I think what we're going to
watch is a success story because of what he's had
to endure all of his life. And I try to
encourage him not to look at these things as a setback,
but a set up for what's next in his life.
And I think he's going to be ready, uh, you know,
to to take this next step. Hammocker recognizes the familiar
(32:57):
position he's in. He stood at life ros rugs many
times before. He knows there are nearly five undrafted players
currently in the NFL and that he has the opportunity
to add to that number. He's ready to fight his
way onto a roster and eventually to the top once again.
I feel like um freshmans off my year, going to
(33:19):
like No orgiest state state, work my butt off again.
The show you know people just like in high school.
So it's the saying Susant Road. Different journey. As the
NFL season progressed, Hammica has made the Jets practice squad.
(33:42):
Dez Fitzpatrick is also playing the practice squad for the
Tennessee Titans in Minnesota. Cam Bin them is beginning to
get playing time at safety, while Kellen Mond works as
their third string quarterback. Alex Leatherwood and DeVante Smith are
starting for the Raiders and the Eagles. These six players
(34:07):
beat impossible odds and now have the chance to pursue
their dreams at the highest level. They're facing an entirely
new challenge against the best athletes in the world. Welcome
to the NFL. Drafted is a production of tree Ford Media,
(34:37):
Clutch Sports Group, and I Heart Radio. The executive producers
are Kelly Garner, Lisa Ammerman, Eric Slott, Eric Weiner, and
Sean Tatone. The series is produced and written by Eric Winer.
Garme Mamalu is our coordinating producer. Coral Silverberg is our
associate producer. Tom Monahan is our senior audio engineer. The
(34:58):
show is mixed, edited and how stood by me Stephen Johnson.
Additional production helped from Tim Shower and Hailey Mandelburg. For
transcripts of the show and more information undrafted, go to
tree for dot fm, and for more podcasts from My Heart,
visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
you listen to your favorite shows.
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